CASE #001U
Type: UFO Sighting
Location: Paradise CA
Date: Sat, Sept. 10 1988
Time: Just after 12:00 (Noon)
Status: Open, unexplained, pending further info.

Note: The following is a transcript of an interview I did with the witness on September 24, 1988. I need to clarify that at the time, although I was a UFO buff and did some research, I was not actively investigating cases--I was working in the audio field (I still do), with ties to radiobroadcasting, and was planning on producing a radio documentary on UFOs, using witness interviews. At the time, some investigative work was done on this case (call to the Police Department, and surveying the area--see the additional notes at the end). The witness has since passed away, so for now, I can only provide the account which follows, with the hopes that another witness will come forward, or a similar event will occur, somewhere...

Interviewer: If you could go ahead and describe exactly what happened...

Witness: Yes, I was traveling north on Clark road and I noticed a couple of light-colored objects in the sky. They looked about like the moon does when it's not very bright at night. And they were round, I couldn't estimate the size because they were quite high, I would guess probably around 5000 feet, and there were three of them, and they appeared to be stationary, but as I watched them they began to take different formations in relation to each other. One came closer to the one on the left--the center one--and [it] moved back to the center again. It became apparently equal distance between them. And there was another over close to the horizon looking from Nunnelly Road and Clark toward the new auditorium--in that direction.

I: Northwest...

W: Yes. And to check to see whether or not they were actually moving or standing still, I looked at them with the reference point of the power lines, and they were between the power lines from where I was sitting in the car, and they were stationary. And finally, the one over on the horizon came over and joined the rest of them, so we then had four. And they remained there, and I at that point, went down to the Police station and asked them had they received any reports about unusual objects in the sky, and the lady said no, but we have men out on the beat there--they haven't reported anything. So I wanted to know that I wasn't just imagining them so I went up to [name of local store] and there were a number of people coming and going out of the store in the parking lot. I would say there were about a total of twelve people that passed by, and I pointed out to one of them and they looked at it for some time, and one lady said she counted seven. I had before that time as they gathered, counted six, and there was one that was perfectly black. I couldn't see it very well. I had gone home, incidentally, between times to get my field glasses, but I couldn't make out the definite object. They appeared to be something that was lighted from the inside.

I: Any definite edges--were the edges real defined or "fuzzy?"

W: No, all of them seemed to be tumbling, but remaining in space. And one of them looked as though it might have been a box kite--that sort of shape, with the tumble, although I couldn't make out a definite...

I: So more of a square type of...

W: Square or oblong. And as it rotated, I couldn't get a good fix on it. And the black--there was one perfectly black...

I: And was it also round--or square?

W: It was somewhat squarish and was tumbling also. And I thought perhaps that they were kites, but later on while observing them from the parking lot at [name of store], three of them took off in the position going north at about the speed that you'd notice a jet traveling at--that apparent speed--and kites couldn't travel that distance! [Laughter about a "fast kid" comment.] So I really couldn't account for them. Now, finally three of them took off, going north, and I kept watching the ones that remained stationary and they gradually went higher and higher until they disappeared out of sight. But I would say that they were in view for more than three-quarters of an hour. The interesting thing was that many of the people that I pointed them out to on the parking lot were just mildly interested--they looked with the thought that appeared to me, that they were thinking, "Oh, yeah... there's something up there."

I: Why do you suppose that is?

W: I don't know. I don't understand it. The lady that took the most interest is the one that said she could count seven. I could only see six, but... her eyesight was probably better than mine! Now, they were round, and here a few days ago when this... article was on television about the flying saucers, what did they call it?

I: Yeah, I wanted to get to that. It was, I believe, the Friday after your sighting, a late night television talk show which dealt with UFOs [The Late Show with Ross Shaffer]. Now what did you find interesting about that?

W: They showed pictures... And they had one large picture, so it was a large mechanism of some kind, then the round ones. Well, what I saw looked exactly like the round ones.

I: Just like it... they showed on this show...

W: Uh, huh. That's the way they looked in the sky.

I: That's interesting... What were the basic colors--did it change colors; have a different hue to it?

W: No, no, same color--no sound.

I: Did they flash or flicker?

W: No, no, just the movements.

I: Tell me about the movement. What did they do exactly?

W: They went into different formations. There was one formation--when I went back to get my binoculars--when I came back, they had formed into the shape of a cross. The only thing they lacked to make it a complete cross was a center dot. But the top and the bottom and the cross--the distance was very normal.

I: And how many of them were doing this?

W: Four. Four of them. The fifth one would've made it definitely a cross from my standpoint!

I: The fifth one wasn't there!

W: Wasn't there!

I: Did they make any other shapes at all?

W: No, not any definite shapes. But in this cross, as far as I could see they were equal distance for each side, see, completely symmetrical. And they remained there for quite awhile in that position.

I: Did you get the feeling that they were trying to communicate?

W: No, I didn't [laughing]. I've been trying to find a scientific explanation...

I: I can understand that... after you figure out if you're crazy or not, huh? [laughter] What was the sky conditions? Was it clear; cloudy?

W: Clear, absolutely clear.

I: And where was the sun? More overhead... to your back?

W: The sun was to the back, so the sun was not in my eyes. And bright sunlight.

I: When you were looking at them through your binoculars, could you see if they were emitting any heat radiation?

W: I couldn't see any, no--infrared--no, I didn't see any indication of that.

I: And you said they were kind of spinning... rotating...

W: Yes, I would say tumbling because the rate of speed was not a high rate of speed they were turning at.

I: Did they appear as if they might have been wobbling a bit?

W: They could have been wobbling a little too, yes.

I: And their movement--would you describe it as being real defined or erratic a little bit?

W: No, no, they just apparently remained in one spot, and the irregularities I noted as they passed by--as they tumbled, that one would be a little bit longer than the other, showing that it was.. they were not symmetrical in that dimension.

I: Now looking at them through the field glasses, did it appear to you as if they were solid, or were they a little bit transparent. In other words, could you maybe see into them?

W: They looked as though I would imagine that a... if a box kite was lit up inside. Although, the light intensity was the same over the entire surface. It was very equal.

I: So you're saying, then, they weren't really reflecting light, but they were self-luminous.

W: It looked as though they were, yes. They may have been, as they tumbled, as I recall now, there may have been a slight difference in the... probably due to the surface of whatever it was.

I: As far as height, you said roughly, maybe 5000 feet?

W: Yes, I'm guessing... it's difficult...

I: What angle... yes I know it's difficult...

W: It's difficult. I had thought about going back to the spot and triangulating, but it's necessary to know the exact angle and the distance to the object, you see, to know the height. Otherwise, you could do it with trigonometry. But I don't know the distance that they were.

I: Yeah, and you didn't notice if they had moved behind or in front of anything like a tree, or anything?

W: No, no, they didn't.

I: They were way above the trees...

W: That's right--above everything.

I: In more less the North... Northwest skies...

W: Yes, Northwest, but more toward the North.

I: Now, when we spoke over the phone, you had said something about an airplane that also flew over?

W: There was an airplane that flew over but it may have been one of the planes that carry the retardant for the fires. It was painted red.

I: Did it go over at the same time or a little after?

W: No, it was during the time. And it went North... Northeast--came from back over toward Chico. And it was painted red and it had a round fuselage as opposed to squareness.

I: It may have been one of the tankers...

W: It might have been. Or an Army--I thought of at the moment, as an Army plane of some type, but it appeared to have no connection with the objects. It didn't seem to take any interest in... going up there and investigate... I was hoping for some jets to come by and investigate!

I: Now you have had something like eleven, twelve years in the space program?

W: Yes, eleven years and some months in the space program.

I: What capacity did you work, if I may ask?

W: I was a telemetry engineer for Lockheed. And that's a job that entails the instrumentation and the read-out instruments from the information that comes back to Earth. And the radio.

I: I'll bet that was interesting...

W: It was.

I: And at this time had you heard of different UFO sightings?

W: Oh, I heard of them, but I always listened with a little suspicion. [laughter] Because when you work in scientific fields, you look for an explanation--a scientific explanation of everything, you know, so I'm inclined to question. [laughter]

I: So how about now, after what you saw--are you still a little skeptical?
W: Still--until I hear some explanation. [laughter]

I: [jokingly] 'Til I come to you and say "Hey look--I found it--it's a balloon! [laughter] Speaking of balloons...

W: I thought of balloons too, but balloons would not be able to go at will in either direction. And these were able to move and regroup. And I thought also of a parachutist falling, but they're able to get together after a certain distance, but they need to come down to do that, you see. They can't stay in one spot and do that.

I: You said they took off at about the speed--of a high speed...

W: Just three of them. Three of them--they went North. And as they took off they remained the same distance apart--they were an equal distance apart.

I: In a real good formation...

W: Yeah. Good formation--one behind the other.

I: Any other details that you might have noticed looking through the field glasses?

W: No, No.

I: Any markings on them?

W: Oh, no, I couldn't see any markings at all. I think they were too far away.

I: Just real bright objects...

W: Now they were bright, but they were not brilliant by any means. Just enough that you could see--they looked white actually--they looked white against the sky.

I: I had asked you [previously in a phone conversation] if you had a camera--if you had tried to take a picture?

W: No, I didn't have a--had just taken the film out of my camera and taken it in to have it reproduced, so I didn't have the camera loaded. But in the future, I'm gonna have one loaded with me!

I: And I'll bet every time you're driving up Clark [Road] now you're gonna glance out in that direction!

W: I do, now, every time I go up there... in the same direction. Although there's little to indicate they would come back to the same spot.

I: I've heard of several instances where they do come back to the general area...

W: Now, I have, in days gone by, I have theorized to myself that possibly that these are not flying saucers, but they are living objects, or living creatures of some kind. [Note: See the "Rods" link on our "Hard to Classify" page!]

I: Like some sort of plasma or such?

W: Yes, or they may have a different method of propulsion. They might even work on the magnetic fields to travel on.

I: Can you speculate as to where you think they might be from?

W: No, I wouldn't have the slightest idea. [laughter]

I: When you were at the hardware store, there pointing it out to people, did any of the employees there see it at all?

W: No, I was sorry later that I didn't go in and call some of their attention to it...

I: Anyone else you can think of who might of seen it--anyone driving by, or anyone you compared notes with at all?

W: No, just the people that were getting in and out of their cars and coming out of the... And I wish I had been able to reach the newspaper...

I: Do you have any other closing comments or any other observations that you'd like to...

W: No, that's about it. That's all that I saw, and as I said, I'm still searching for a scientific explanation.

I: Thank you very much.

W: Well it's been nice talking to you.

Additional Notes:

There are still a number of unanswered questions regarding this case, but unfortunately, the witness has since passed away, and no other witnesses have come forward, so for now, I can only speculate. For instance, as the objects gathered, did they come from different (or the same) directions. I'm guessing that he must not have been looking at the time. Perhaps it was while he was in transit to the Police station, or when he went home to get his binoculars. It's also worth noting that an airshow may have been taking place in the nearby city if Chico, CA. (It is still being determined whether this is actually so.) The airport is in the northern part of Chico, approximately 12 miles to the West of Paradise (the location of this sighting). If the objects were more toward the North as the witness reported, the direction is not consistant with the location of the airport. However, not to rule this out--it is remotely possible that the objects in question were a part of an airshow. However, in airshows, the acrobatic displays move right along, from one presentation to the next--they generally don't hover for 45 minutes at nearly a mile high! Also, too, remember that the witness was a telemetry engineer, and would have surely recognized any known aircraft, blimps, parachutists, etc. The witness had mentioned, by the way, that he tried to call the local newspaper during the sighting, but received no answer.